A TALK WITH LYLE LOVETT, THE TEXAS-BASED MUSICIAN, ACTOR, AND FATHER OF TWINS
By Dr. Joshua Sherman and Anastasia Stanmeyer
IT’S BEEN A WHILE since Lyle Lovett has played in the Berkshires. Eleven years to be exact. Even so, whenever he is even close to the Berkshires, Lovett finds a way to stop over in one of his favorite towns: Stockbridge. He plans to visit the area once again on May 10—this time to perform with Grammy®-winning Lisa Loeb at the Mahaiwe in Great Barrington. We’re not the only ones eagerly awaiting that show. “I’m excited about being at the Mahaiwe with Lisa, just the two of us on stage with no bands or anything,” says Lovett. “We’ll take turns playing songs and talk between songs.”
We had the pleasure of speaking with Lovett by phone from Modesto, California, where he was on a 17-show tour with his acoustic group. For upwards of an hour, we were charmed by this Texan who is not only a four-time Grammy®-winning singer, songwriter, and guitarist, but also an accomplished photographer, horseman, motorcyclist, actor, and father of six-year-old twins. Our conversation was relaxed, comfortable. Every answer had a story, and many, a story within a story.
Anastasia: I did a little bit of digging, Lyle, and the last time you performed here in the Berkshires was 2013 with John Hiatt at the Colonial in Pittsfield.
Lyle: I remember that show well. The fire alarm went off in the middle of the show. They had to empty the theater. That was our first show on that tour. Afterwards, we determined that it was our truck driver, a man named Rod, who had taken a shower in one of the dressing rooms during the show. It was the steam from the shower that set off the fire alarm. From then on, we’ve called him, “Shower Rod.” That’s how nicknames happen. (Laughs)
Anastasia: You and your Large Band also played in 1997 and 2000 at Tanglewood.
Lyle: James Taylor wanted the Fourth of July off in 1997, and we got to play. That was a lot of fun. We stayed at The Red Lion Inn. We all enjoyed sitting on the porch that evening.
Anastasia: And you played at the Mahaiwe in 2011. Are you looking forward to performing there again, this time with Lisa Loeb?
Lyle: This type of show is conversational, and so a place the size of the Mahaiwe lends itself to that kind of intimate show. I'm definitely excited about that.
Anastasia: How long have you been coming to the Berkshires?
Lyle: The Calvin Theatre in Northampton would have been the first place. I know it’s not technically in the Berkshires, but that would have been the first time. Actually, we played at Smith College. That would have been the first time. We played right on campus, in a hall there that looked more like a lecture room than a theater, with wooden seats. That would have been in the late-’80s. We discovered The Red Lion Inn shortly after that. Someone I was working with, one of my tour managers, knew about The Red Lion. I remember having this thought that there used to be a chain of motels in California called The Red Lion. When I first saw The Red Lion on our itinerary, I was expecting Fess Parker’s Red Lion Inn like the one in Santa Barbara, which is very different from Stockbridge. I just remember expecting that sort of hotel-motel when I saw it on the itinerary. I was pleasantly surprised to get to know the historic Red Lion Inn.
Anastasia: I spoke recently about you with someone you know here in the Berkshires, Abbey Keith.
Lyle: Yeah, I know Abbey and Noah. I love their Stockbridge Coffee & Tea. It's one of the places I love to go. Abbey does such a great job with the bookstore there. I've been touring across the country since 1986. To get to know people and to get to see them every year and look forward to catching up with folks, it's the best part of getting to travel like this. I admire that Noah and Abbey are brother and sister, and they work together in the way they do. They have such a wonderful family. I always look forward to seeing them.
Anastasia: Abbey says she recalls the first time she met you. It was 2014 or ’15, and you were walking around, taking photos. You asked if it was okay to take some pictures of her and other staff. Are you going to be bringing your camera again?
Lyle: Oh, gosh, I always bring my camera. I was a journalism major, and taking pictures was part of my degree. I just like to take pictures. Depending on the season, Stockbridge looks really different. Even if I'm taking pictures of the same buildings or the same landmarks, it may look different from time to time, and also depending on the time of day. I like to take pictures of people better than anything else. Stockbridge is so picturesque. At The Red Lion Inn, back where the old curtain shop used to be, there's a stairway just past the dining room where they printed some of the pictures and have this display.
Anastasia: Yes, I've seen them. They're really beautiful. It's a grouping of photos on the wall.
Lyle: It was really sweet of them to put them up. Sarah and Tim Eustis do such a great job, and they always make the band and me feel so at home there at The Red Lion Inn. We look forward to the chicken pot pie and the apple pie. Those are my favorites. I always eat too much.
Anastasia: I live right down the road in West Stockbridge, so it's very tempting to go there.
Lyle: That would be dangerous. That would be completely dangerous.
Anastasia: Besides photography, has Stockbridge or the Berkshires inspired you to write music or lyrics?
Lyle: I don't think I've referenced Stockbridge or Western Mass. specifically. But it's a place that makes me feel great. It's a place that I feel welcome and reassured by the people there and about life in general. All of that contributes to creative thought. Even though I haven't written anything specific about Stockbridge, it’s just a place that makes me feel good about the world.
Joshua: Lyle, Anastasia has focused on your relationship to the Berkshires. I’d like to chat about your multi-hyphenate career. But first, I have to share this: One of my best friends is from Dallas, and she is a HUGE fan of yours. You mentioned you were a journalism major in college. She and her husband also went to your alma mater, Texas A&M. They explained to me that all of the class rings are identical—save for the year—so that alums can identify one another. Do you wear your A&M ring?
Lyle: I do, all the time. When I got my ring, it was a little small. I could put it on with soap and water. I used to wear it only for special occasions, for Aggie functions. One day, I was boarding an airplane and sitting in an aisle seat, and an older gentleman—who turned out to be an “old Ag,” as we call it—walked by me, backhanded me on the shoulder and said, “Where’s your ring?” I thought, I've got to get my ring. So, I went to Porter Garner, who runs the Association of Former Students and was one of my classmates, and I said, “Porter, I need to get my ring enlarged.” He said, “Let me have it.” So I handed it to him. He said, “Here, wear this in the meantime.” He handed me a ring—the older they get, the smoother they are. All the details were worn off, and there was this beautiful, rounded, shiny thing. I said, “Who's ring is this, Port?” He said, “My dad’s.” I said, “I can't wear your dad’s ring.” And he said, “Just put it on and wear it. We’ll have yours back in a couple of weeks.” So I wore Porter’s dad's ring for those two weeks while mine was getting enlarged. Ever since I got mine back, I haven't taken it off.
Joshua: That’s great. That'll make her and her husband very happy. (Laughs) And now, a big question from me: You live in a wide range of music genres. You've done film and photography. You majored in German and journalism, and even your skills as a horseman all require creativity. Can you talk a bit about your creative universe? In addition to music, what’s on your agenda?
Lyle: There is just so much to love about the world, isn’t there? There’s so much to be interested in, and there’s so much to do. I've lived in the same place my whole life and always wanted to live there. My grandfather gave each one of his seven children a couple of acres on his farm to build their homes. I grew up next door to my grandparents and across the pasture from my aunts and uncles and cousins. I appreciate that similarity when I'm in Western Mass., meeting folks like the Keiths who go back to the Revolution. Growing up on a farm, I've always been interested in farm stuff. I’ve been involved with horses my whole life. I raced motorcycles when I was in my high school years, and I'm still involved with the motorcycle community and racing community. That’s inspirational, as well. And because I am a performer, I've gotten to meet and work with photographers that I'm a fan of—Annie Leibovitz, Mark Seliger, Marc Schiller, and Michael Wilson, who has done all of my album cover photography since 1992. There's not a single photo shoot that I haven't learned something from the folks that I've worked with. It’s that way with everything; there's just always so much to learn. And there's always something you can learn from the people you work with. I feel that way when I go out with my band. Getting to work with people who are the best at what they do, and whatever the discipline, just makes you better. I've known Lisa Loeb since 1996, when we did a tour together. Before I even knew about Lisa, her mom and dad would come to my shows in Dallas. Her mom would make these amazing chocolate chip cookies and send them backstage. I got to visit with them before I even knew about Lisa. Then, of course, Lisa had that song, “Stay,” and that great film that Ethan Hawke did. I put two and two together, and I thought, well, that was her mom that brings us those great cookies. And her mom still makes great cookies. To answer your question, my main focus these days really are my six-year-old twins. I became a dad at the young age of 59. Of all the things that I've enjoyed doing in my life, nothing compares to just getting to be a dad and getting to sit on the floor with my children and playing and building a Lego set with them, or taking them to school and picking them up. I do that every day that I'm home. I’m finally getting the chance to be a dad, and to experience that really has been just the best part of my life.
Joshua: Among your many credits, you acted in four Robert Altman films. Many actors who worked with Altman have shared that he liked quite a bit of improvisation. What was your experience, and how would you compare improv as an actor on film to improvising as a musician? Is it the same skill set?
Lyle: Robert Altman came to the show that I did in 1990 at the Greek Theater on a tour that I did with Rickie Lee Jones. Altman and his wife, Kathryn, came to the show at the invitation of their granddaughter.
Altman called me after that. I remember picking up the phone in my kitchen, and he said in that very straightforward, Kansas City way of speaking, “This is Bob Altman. You want to be in a movie?” And I said, “Well, yes, sir.” It was because of him that I got to act at all. I enjoy it every time because, once again, it's getting to learn about how another medium works. He was famous for encouraging actors to improvise. But Altman was such a keen judge of character. He knew who to let out a line, and who not to. With me, he was always very specific. He knew I was looking to him for help. He gave me direction that was absolutely invaluable and helped me to feel comfortable on set and helped me feel like I knew what I was doing. In The Player, for example, he gave Tim Robbins a wide range of options. Bob would come up to me just before we were about to shoot, and he would discreetly lean into my ear and say, “Do this.” Everything he suggested always worked. Improvising on film is very different than improvising on stage. Most directors, most writers are very particular about the words on the page. Before I ever change something on the page, I talk to the writer or talk to the director and say, “I was thinking, I might have an easier time saying it this way.” And sometimes they say, “Sure, go for it.” Or sometimes they say, “We'd rather you stay with what’s on the page.” Improvising on stage with a live audience is altogether different. When I'm on stage, I'm my own director, so I don't have to ask anybody's permission. The single most fun thing about performing live is feeling an audience, reading an audience, having that relationship with an audience. Whether an audience speaks or not, there's a presence that an audience has that's undeniable. That presence shapes the entire show.
Joshua: So true. Let’s talk about your music for a moment.
Lyle: Sure.
Joshua: You often incorporate country, jazz, swing, folk, gospel, and blues. And one of the biggest challenges in the music industry is that it is built by genre—less so today, but radio stations play certain music, and distributors want to know where an album should live in a store. When executives ask you to define your music, how do you define it?
Lyle: The beauty of it is that I haven't really been asked to do that. My first three records were released from the Nashville branch of MCA records. Legendary producer Tony Brown realized by my third record that it really wasn't the country audience who was supporting my records. He helped me get my record deal moved to MCA Los Angeles. I've always worked with folks that have allowed me just to be myself. If I had to assume some sort of character on stage and play one genre of music or one genre influence on my music, I don't think I could do it. What's been gratifying for me throughout my career is that I just get to be myself, and the record companies that I've worked with over the years seem to be okay with that.
Joshua: You love live performance. What venue do you consider a hidden gem?
Lyle: There are so many. The place that I first was able to play my own songs—the first serious original music club that I ever played—is a place that still exists. It's called Anderson Fair Retail Restaurant. It was started by Gray Fair and Marvin Anderson back in 1969 and has always been run by volunteers. It’s a very serious listening room where the requirement to play is that you play your own songs. It’s an educated audience, and they come there to see what you have to say. It was a wonderful atmosphere for me, and I still go back and play occasionally. Bill Stains would come down from New Hampshire every year or so. I remember opening for Odetta and Ramblin’ Jack Elliott and Carolyn Hester and Dave Van Ronk. It also hosted Houston and Texas singer-songwriters on a regular basis, people like Nancy Griffith, Eric Taylor, Vince Bell, and Don Sanderson. When Guy Clark would come to town, he would play there, and Townes Van Zandt would play there. It was a place that was about the music, about the song, about the art of music. Not about commerce, because it only holds 70 people. In my early days, if I had a crowd of 20 people, I was thrilled. I used to open for Lucinda Williams on Thursday nights. There’s a film about it directed by Bruce Ryan from Houston called For the Sake of the Song: The Story of Anderson Fair.
Joshua: Very cool. And now, a very specific question: In your song, “If I Had a Boat,” you reference riding your pony on a boat. That's a very creative idea, but it's also sort of a crazy image. Where did that come from?
Lyle: I made that song up when I was 20. I was sort of struggling with this idea of knowing that I wanted to play music and then feeling like it wasn't that realistic of an ambition. Why can't I be everything that I want to be? Being the master of your own destiny, that's really what the song is about. I started working on it that morning. I remember I had a history class at 11 o’clock, and I ended up skipping it, because I needed to keep working on the song. I felt guilty about that. When I was a boy, we had a one-acre pond next to our house. It’s still there. I decided one day to try to ride my Shetland pony that my parents had bought for me when I was two. I was 10, 11, or 12 by then. I thought it would be fun to ride him across the pond, into the water and go across. When we got to the part of the pond where he had to start swimming, I quickly found myself swimming, too. He got me off his back pretty quick. I thought to myself, we could have made it if we had a boat.
Joshua: You were 20 years old when you wrote that, and you asked yourself, “Why can’t I do it all?” This whole interview is sort of an example that 45 years later, you sort of can do it all. You can’t do it all at the same time, but look—you live in all these worlds. It's really inspiring.
Lyle: I'm really grateful that I've gotten to do things that I love to do. Some people dread going to work and look forward to the weekend. I've been able to look forward to every day, and I get to spend my days with people that I admire and who teach me. I am absolutely mindful of the fact that it doesn't get any better than that.
Lyle Lovett and Lisa Loeb: In Conversation and Song, Friday, May 10, at 8 p.m. at the Mahaiwe Performing Arts Center. mahaiwe.org
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